Monday, September 15, 2014

OD&D Attack Progressions Compared (Originals and Clones), Part I

Moldvay Basic
A comment on the last blog post made me want to do this.

Here are the attack progressions to hit Armor Class 2 by level for ten games--the three major OD&D versions and seven contemporary clones:

Dungeons & Dragons (0e) (1974-78)
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1e) (1979)
Moldvay Basic/Cook Expert Dungeons & Dragons (B/X) (1981).
OSRIC (2006)
Labyrinth Lord (2007)
Swords & Wizardry (2008)*
Swords & Wizardry White Box (2009)*
Lamentations of the Flame Princess (2010)*
Seven Voyages of Zylarthen (2013)*
Delving Deeper V4 (2014)

Those with an asterisk list things in attack bonus form rather than table form, but for the sake of this comparison all will be listed in table form.

For OSRIC I used version 2.2. I assume the numbers are the same across all versions but I may be wrong on that. For Swords & Wizardry I used the recent 'Complete' edition, which may or not have different numbers from the original 2008 edition. The numbers for Delving Deeper are from the most recent edition, which differ somewhat from those of earlier editions.

I hope I didn't make any mistakes.

Looking at the tables a number of things leap out. Some things were not surprising. Some were.

I'll make some comments tomorrow. But I welcome any comments or observations anyone would like to make.

(If you turn your phone sideways, I think these will exactly fill up the screen. You probably already knew that. But I didn't.)

To Hit Armor Class 2:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
FIGHTING-MAN
Level
Avg.
Avg.
Avg.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1-5
6-10
Total
0e
17
17
17
15
15
15
12
12
12
10
16.2
12.2
14.2
1e
18
18
16
16
14
14
12
12
10
10
16.4
11.6
14.0
B/X
17
17
17
15
15
15
12
12
12
10
16.2
12.2
14.2
OSRIC
18
17
16
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
16.0
11.0
13.5
Labyrinth Lord
17
17
16
15
14
13
12
12
11
10
15.8
11.6
13.7
S&W Complete
17
17
16
15
15
14
13
12
11
10
16.0
12.0
14.0
S&W White Box
17
16
15
15
14
13
13
12
11
11
15.4
12.0
13.7
LOTFP
17
16
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
8
15.0
10.0
12.5
Seven Voyages
17
17
17
15
15
15
12
12
12
10
16.2
12.2
14.2
Delving Deeper
16
16
15
15
15
15
12
12
12
12
15.4
12.6
14.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
MAGIC-USER
Level
Avg.
Avg.
Avg.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1-5
6-10
Total
0e
17
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
15
17.0
15.0
16.0
1e
19
19
19
19
19
17
17
17
17
17
19.0
17.0
18.0
B/X
17
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
15
17.0
15.0
16.0
OSRIC
19
19
19
19
19
17
17
17
17
17
19.0
17.0
18.0
Labyrinth Lord
17
17
17
16
16
16
16
15
15
15
16.6
15.4
16.0
S&W Complete
17
17
17
16
16
15
15
14
14
13
16.6
14.2
15.4
S&W White Box
17
17
17
17
16
16
15
15
14
14
16.8
14.8
15.8
LOTFP
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18.0
18.0
18.0
Seven Voyages
17
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
15
17.0
15.0
16.0
Delving Deeper
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
15
15
16.6
15.0
15.8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
CLERIC
Level
Avg.
Avg.
Avg.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1-5
6-10
Total
0e
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
12
12
16.6
13.8
15.2
1e
18
18
18
16
16
16
14
14
14
12
17.2
14.0
15.6
B/X
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
12
12
16.6
13.8
15.2
OSRIC
18
18
18
16
16
16
14
14
14
12
17.2
14.0
15.6
Labyrinth Lord
17
17
17
16
16
15
15
15
14
14
16.6
14.6
15.6
S&W Complete
17
17
16
16
15
15
14
14
13
12
16.2
13.6
14.9
S&W White Box
17
17
17
16
16
15
15
14
13
12
16.6
13.8
15.2
LOTFP
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18.0
18.0
18.0
Seven Voyages
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
Delving Deeper
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
15
12
12
16.2
13.8
15.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
THIEF
Level
Avg.
Avg.
Avg.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1-5
6-10
Total
0e
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
12
12
16.6
13.8
15.2
1e
19
19
19
19
17
17
17
17
14
14
18.6
15.8
17.2
B/X
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
12
12
16.6
13.8
15.2
OSRIC
19
19
19
19
17
17
17
17
14
14
18.6
15.8
17.2
Labyrinth Lord
17
17
17
16
16
15
15
15
14
14
16.6
14.6
15.6
S&W Complete
17
17
17
16
16
15
15
14
14
13
16.6
14.2
15.4
S&W White Box
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
LOTFP
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18
18.0
18.0
18.0
Seven Voyages
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
12
12
16.6
13.8
15.2
Delving Deeper
17
17
17
17
15
15
15
15
15
15
16.6
15.0
15.8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
AVERAGES
Level
Avg.
Avg.
Avg.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1-5
6-10
Total
0e
17.0
17.0
17.0
16.5
15.5
15.0
14.3
14.3
12.8
12.3
16.6
13.7
15.2
1e
18.5
18.5
18.0
17.5
16.5
16.0
15.0
15.0
13.8
13.3
17.8
14.6
16.2
B/X
17.0
17.0
17.0
16.5
15.5
15.0
14.3
14.3
12.8
12.3
16.6
13.7
15.2
OSRIC
18.5
18.3
18.0
17.3
16.5
15.8
15.0
14.8
13.8
13.0
17.7
14.5
16.1
Labyrinth Lord
17.0
17.0
16.8
15.8
15.5
14.8
14.5
14.3
13.5
13.3
16.4
14.1
15.2
S&W Comp.
17.0
17.0
16.5
15.8
15.5
14.8
14.3
13.5
13.0
12.0
16.4
13.5
14.9
S&W WB
17.0
16.7
16.3
16.0
15.3
14.7
14.3
13.7
12.7
12.3
16.3
13.5
14.9
LOTFP
17.8
17.5
17.3
17.0
16.8
16.5
16.3
16.0
15.8
15.5
17.3
16.0
16.6
7 Voyages
17.0
17.0
17.0
16.3
15.7
15.0
14.0
14.0
13.0
12.3
16.6
13.7
15.1
DD
16.8
16.8
16.5
16.0
15.0
15.0
14.3
14.3
13.5
13.5
16.2
14.1
15.2





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8 comments:

  1. Raul De La Garza IIISeptember 15, 2014 at 8:41 AM

    Fascinating. I noticed that you did not use the Holmes version in your comparisons. Was this on purpose? It is not a large matter just an observation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Zenopus ArchivesSeptember 15, 2014 at 9:14 PM

      Holmes only covers levels 1-3, and is the same as OD&D for those levels - all classes need a 17 to hit AC 2. The most notable addition to Holmes over OD&D is a new line for "Normal Man", who needs an 18 for AC 2 (that is, attacks at -1 as compared to L1-3s).

      Delete
    2. Raul De La Garza IIISeptember 16, 2014 at 8:06 AM

      Thanks. Very enlightening and now understandable in light of it.

      Delete
  2. n8mcdSeptember 15, 2014 at 10:52 AM

    Excellent use of old-school (Moldvay I think) table art.

    ReplyDelete
  3. MalcadonSeptember 15, 2014 at 8:28 PM

    I learned years ago that even within similar D&D rule-sets, there are a lot of small differences within the charts and tables, but you only notice them when you jump form one system to the other. And even still, you'll most likely stumble upon them as you are running the game.

    For example, there are slight changes in the saving throws between the Basic and Expert sets, and the Companion and Masters sets make drastic changes to them, so by Rules Cyclopedia, they retroactively change the whole array! All over, this applies to To-Hits, Saving Throws, Spells/day, etc., et al.!

    Also, drafting a system that adjusts the "EXP Needed" based on class capability is a mess when its just covering one rule set -- you'll get no conformity between the different rule sets, so you'll have to treat each system with their own formula, and their would still be some compatibility issues!

    It would be nice to have a master list of all the charts and tables between all the classic editions and the (retro/near-)clones that spawned from them, for the sake of conversions.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Darcy PerrySeptember 15, 2014 at 11:26 PM

    The hidden secret here is: Use the best weapon and armour available to your class.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Vile TravellerNovember 27, 2014 at 9:17 AM

    Oh, you missed a Holmes clone, there. ;-)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oakes SpaldingNovember 27, 2014 at 11:28 AM

      I didn't look at Holmes or his clones because the numbers track 0e and of course they only list the first three levels, so there is no progression.

      Delete

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