tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post2202786492330391254..comments2024-03-28T03:23:34.498-05:00Comments on Save Versus<br> All Wands: 0 Level Characters in ZylarthenOakes Spaldinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08078500142758654392noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-33339719733376199842014-12-03T14:47:21.542-06:002014-12-03T14:47:21.542-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-17342405196249554912014-12-03T14:38:57.439-06:002014-12-03T14:38:57.439-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-30053039377510029462014-12-03T06:49:48.344-06:002014-12-03T06:49:48.344-06:00Looking through the 1e Monster Manual, Gary conver...Looking through the 1e Monster Manual, Gary converted all the "Men" entries, such as bandits, into 0 level normal men. In OD&D these encounters all had hit dice like normal monster entries. This seems to be some sort of philosophical change. From that point on, humans only had class and level and were never given hit dice. This created the need for a 0-level. Hedgehobbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17606283586332210195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-77679925642024277432014-12-02T21:27:43.474-06:002014-12-02T21:27:43.474-06:00Yes, good, porphyre77. I should have noted that. A...Yes, good, porphyre77. I should have noted that. And as Ron Anderson pointed out in his Google+ comments there's also the obvious point about 1st level Fighting-Men being called "Veterans". On the other hand, as Aaron Day points out in his Google+ comments, Arneson referred to 1st level fighters as "flunkies" and Barker in EPT uses the label "Soldier" as opposed to "Veteran".<br /><br />I think the evidence seems to point to ideas on this issue being mixed. In the end, though, Gygax's views (were they always his views?) obviously won out.Oakes Spaldinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08078500142758654392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-31227518437592067952014-12-02T21:17:32.440-06:002014-12-02T21:17:32.440-06:00Yes. That would seem to answer that question. And ...Yes. That would seem to answer that question. And to be more precise I should have said, first introduced "in" Holmes.Oakes Spaldinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08078500142758654392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-13033217825094781712014-12-02T11:54:34.966-06:002014-12-02T11:54:34.966-06:00This is an important distinction to make, as attac...This is an important distinction to make, as attack capability in zylarthen is clearly modeled off of the ACS, not fighting capability.dleifackorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08999997160504303968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-15400753532711193922014-12-01T10:04:39.784-06:002014-12-01T10:04:39.784-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-2310368013973908002014-12-01T10:00:31.542-06:002014-12-01T10:00:31.542-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-65506853210362643772014-12-01T08:34:15.793-06:002014-12-01T08:34:15.793-06:00"It's also possible, I suppose, that Gyga...<i>"It's also possible, I suppose, that Gygax or Arneson had intended the 0 level distinction for OD&D but hadn't stated it explicitly, or that it was present in some form in Chainmail. Nevertheless it's not in the OD&D text itself."</i><br /><br />There is actually a difference in Men & Magic between a 1st level Fighting man and "normal men" : in the "Statistic Regarding Classe "tables (p 17), the 1st level FM had a fighting capability of "Man +1", thus making him a tougher opponent than a "Man" or even his fellow adventurers , Cleric and MU, but it was "lost" with the alternate Combat System Tables. porphyre77https://www.blogger.com/profile/07620350717226228078noreply@blogger.com