tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post3165132359168125332..comments2024-03-28T03:23:34.498-05:00Comments on Save Versus<br> All Wands: Is D&D About Storytelling?Oakes Spaldinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08078500142758654392noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-56906582085898169452017-06-17T04:06:13.832-05:002017-06-17T04:06:13.832-05:00There are two kinds of stories people tell.
1. A r...There are two kinds of stories people tell.<br />1. A retelling of events that happened to them or another.<br />2. A fictional story created according to the rules of some media (book, film, comic, short story, seminar speech, etc)<br /><br />All of us generate historical events all day every day by living life. Some of these are interesting enough or we're talented enough to make good stories. These are the types of events that a roleplaying game creates. When you retell them later, THAT is the story.<br /><br />Some people think RPGs create the second type of story, to the point where they prefer to go OOC and have some form of metagame mechanics they can interact with to help author that story outside their character.<br /><br />RPGs do not create "stories" unless you think living life creates stories. RPGs and life create events. The retelling of the events is where the act of memory and skill come in, that's where the "story" is created.CRKruegerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08929243275293124418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-45860909192188687242017-06-10T09:59:45.984-05:002017-06-10T09:59:45.984-05:00"...the role of the referee is not that of a ..."...the role of the referee is not that of a story teller... nor, more importantly, is it to create a story."<br /><br />When I started the post, I felt the urge to respond with the usual violence I experience when confronted by this question. Your ending clears up a lot and I agree with the sentiment.<br /><br />D&D, however, is not "about" storytelling. <a href="https://crossingtheverse.wordpress.com/what-is-a-role-playing-game/" rel="nofollow">It's a game</a> where the purpose is to create a character, go on adventures, kill things and take their stuff. Any other purpose or goal is determined by the players. Story does not enter into the picture until after events have taken place.<br /><br />Is it advantageous to think about the game in terms of story elements? Does the game benefit from things like pacing or dramatic tension? Yes, clearly, but these things are not unique to storytelling. You can have them in your game without ever thinking about story.<br /><br />Why should we cut story out from the game altogether? To avoid confusion. To separate the game distinctly from other forms of entertainment and media. To recognize it for what it is - an interactive, cooperative and uniquely distinct game experience.Ozymandiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01065642299277380465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-44026841887545383882017-06-09T07:16:19.139-05:002017-06-09T07:16:19.139-05:00Even if we avoid all generic uses of the term &quo...Even if we avoid all generic uses of the term "story" (including "setting information in the rulebook", "prepared sequence of scenes" or "what we tell about the game afterwards" - and even "the text of play") and focus on the relationship between story and play, there will still remain at least two legitimate understandings of story as emergent through play.<br /><br />One refers to story as collaborative, intentional and open-ended (improvisational) storytelling in the narrativist design framework. The procedures of play strongly focus on handling the conflict between players' interests regarding further development of the story. There are often dissociated mechanics that regulate these "story-related rights" such as fate points, cards with narrative input or limitations to the number of times a roll can be made within a scene. Key question (the "cultural code" or "system logic" if you will) is "what makes up for a dramatic/interesting/character challenging scene?" - visible in particular in the setting of stakes in conflict resolution. The role of the GM is democratized and partially dissolved into that of the players (player empowerment), he/she is often just another input giver. The story as result often has specific characteristics such as reincorporation of motives, character development through testing how much he/she is willing to pay to achieve what he/she does, skipping through "boring" parts, strong drama between player characters with historical roots (narrated through flashbacks) etc.<br /><br />Then there is the story as a picaresque (see Grognardia or Zak S.'s blog). This is very well related to the OSR style of play. You describe most of its attributes in your blog.<br /><br />I think what Cecilia D'Anastasio values is the narrativist framework without being aware that the tools provided by WotC would never be able to produce such a story, while misrepresenting OSR as the style of play that developed around these TSR/WotC tools (going back to Ravenloft and Dragonlance in the early 1980s) and which therefore can be encountered in mass until today - and which can easily be misrepresented as the historical legacy of D&D.Sudcahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17534965830863598950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-64152309790433821852017-06-08T13:24:58.812-05:002017-06-08T13:24:58.812-05:00"Roleplaying philosophy wars"... haha!
..."Roleplaying philosophy wars"... haha!<br /><br />I agree that a story is created. Sometimes, it's more GM than players, but there's usually an opening, hook, conflict, action, and denouement in every adventure.<br /><br />To me, the OSR is better than just plain old school because our renaissance contains the seeds of innovation, borrowing as much as 15% from alternative styles like "story-gaming."Venger Satanishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04447932700800930510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-51418831475026982432017-06-07T22:12:57.193-05:002017-06-07T22:12:57.193-05:00You don't start with a story. You start with s...You don't start with a story. You start with some guys who want stuff and try to go get it. Story is what happens next. Story is the thing you tell when you're remembering the awesome time you and your friends had imagining your little men blundering around in their world. <br /><br />You can start with a story and then feed it to the players if you are sitting around with a bunch of content tourists, but they would probably have more fun playing video games.Scott Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067161332003628237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-91159271280794042052017-06-07T21:43:45.636-05:002017-06-07T21:43:45.636-05:00D&D is not about story-telling. It's about...D&D is not about story-telling. It's about doing those things which we will someday tell stories about. It's about adventure.<br />Good post!JD McDonnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733422185181944721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-26069814637054110312017-06-07T20:14:14.307-05:002017-06-07T20:14:14.307-05:00Heh ... I'm certainly taking your "kids t...Heh ... I'm certainly taking your "kids these days" line with what I presume is the intended amount of tongue-in-cheek old-fogery. Happily, it isn't the case of course. I've run games for several hundred middle schoolers (blogging about their misadventures for the last few years) and they are just as capable of mad-leaps, distractions, brilliance, and sheer stupidity as we were at the same age, provided that the DM sets a climate where such nonsense is encouraged. Fear not. The good old days are still with us :)Jarrett Perduehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09781934913113611353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-15239165985935608832017-06-07T09:43:33.364-05:002017-06-07T09:43:33.364-05:00How do you know whether is has a story before you ...How do you know whether is has a story before you play it, before you interact with elements you encounter in the game? If the absebce of a prefab story before the game makes you not play it or revert to hack and slash the absent of a story in the game, or the absent of game at all isn't the games fault at that point.Arjenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15273630151155513646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6560143148581212281.post-43997827088673409232017-06-07T09:09:36.170-05:002017-06-07T09:09:36.170-05:00If the game doesn't have a story, I don't ...If the game doesn't have a story, I don't play it. Mere Hack & Slash has never been my thing.Mystic Scholarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593826779432906953noreply@blogger.com